every day, with he asked you why you're awake. >> okay, peter, kirby writes, woke up early hoping peter alexander would take off his shirt since it's soshirt. it's so hot this morning. this got weird. >> what else you got? >> jeff writes had hip surgery yesterday and can't get out of my hospital bed to change the channel. >> we removed the remote controls in hospital beds around the country. "morning joe" is up next. the fact is, you can't solve our problem unless you do what? cut cap and balance. it doesn't matter what the polls are. we have to fix our country. this is the only viable plan right now that will do that. i will pet you a porterhouse steak, if it lands on his desk, he will sign that puppy.

>> we will take that bed. i will refrain from saying it. the president will veto such a bill if it arrives on his decembering. >> a live look at a very hot and steamy new york city. get ready for another hot one. it's friday, july 22nd. welcome to "morning joe." we'll get to bill karins about the heat wave in a moment. with us, we have political writer for the "huffington post," sam stine. we have the chairman and co-publisher of the nye nearby daily news, warren zuckerman. anything going on in your world lately? boring. >> you would think we are interested in the local news, we are all watching london. >> i wonder why.

also with us, after the week we have had in politics, msnbc political analyst and chairman of the republican committee, michael steele. anything going on in your town? >> it's sleepy. >> in washington, oh, yeah, we have the former -- i am stretching long enough. get him over here, please. enough make-up. enough make-up. he's a diva. he's late again and i'm stretching. former governor from -- seriously. it's unbelievable. >> this is the earliest he's ever been late. >> is that joe stuck in the make-up parlor, again? >> you would think i take a long time in make-up. >> former governor -- >> he's primping.

>> he likes to look in the mirror and talk to himself. >> former governor of vermont, howard dean is here this morning. amazing, joe is here, too, everybody. really? >> seriously? all the times -- >> i'm not covering for you. i'm going to come late on monday. i'm going to be an hour late on monday. >> please get the camera off me. >> we'll get to the news. there are things going on in michael steele's world with a deadline looming just 11 days away, president obama is expected to hold a town hall about the deficit in maryland today. it's amid reports the president and john boehner are advancing toward a last minute deal. news that had some leaders in an uproar. it would save $3 trillion for a decade, steep cuts in spending. concerns about entitlement cuts

are prompting many to cut cap and balance plan. it will fail. majority leader, harry reid moved up a vote today instead of tomorrow, but not before blasting a bill on the senate floor. >> i think this piece of legislation is about as weak and senseless as anything that has come on the senate floor. i'm not going to waste the senate's time, day after day on this piece of legislation, which i think is what our country is about. i feel confident this will be disposed of one way or another. the american people should understand this is a bad piece of legislation. perhaps some of the worst legislation in the history of this country. >> the senate is scheduled to stay in session this weekend to work on a deficit bill. the house will not be in session. yesterday, harry reid slammed

house republicans for their position to take the weekend off. we'll move on to grover norquist. have you heard about this? >> i was curious what howard dean thought about this deal. democrats are upset the president may be making a deal with john boehner that doesn't have the type of tax increases they want. is it a sell-out by the president? should he take the deal? >> we don't know what's in the deal. it's hard to talk about a deal where nobody knows what is in it. >> harry reid has a good idea and leaders in the house, there aren't increases in taxes along the lines they wanted. the bush tax increases don't come into effect. >> well, again, joe, i mean, what does go into effect? the principle here is you have to have increase in revenues and also budget cuts. that spreads the pain from people who make $1 million to

people barely getting by. it's the core principle. if that principle is in the deal, it's great. if it's not in the deal, it's probably not going to pass. >> what are you hearing on the hill? >> the reason they are upset is the content of the deal and they are not in the room. >> they have been shut out. >> boehner said a week ago too many people are involved in the deal. it sounds like the president listened to john boehner. >> the president said a way to get anything done is to work through the house. he said the way to get through the house is to have boehner and cantor there. the last time they tried to do it, cantor came in and blew it up. they brought in everyone over the weekend. then met separately with democrats and republicans. democratic leadership and other lawmakers did not know about what was being discussed until the next day's news. >> the democrats are upset. on the republican side, should

john boehner take the chance of doing this without eric cantor and have him cut him off at the knees? >> i don't think he's worried about eric cantor at this stage of the game. he knows what he has to do to keep him in the house. the more difficult part is going to be the democrats now. this is where the president assumes they have to follow his lead. otherwise, it's a disaster for the democrats. at this point, if it doesn't go through, the democrats are going to be blamed for this. this is the last thing in the world they need. >> the sticking point is how to ensure the revenue is there in the end. they are saying listen, we'll set up a commission. they have to raise a billion over ten years. if it doesn't work, we will fall back on the expiration of the bush tax cuts. they are saying you are going to slow walk it.

if it doesn't work you get the bush tax cuts and the repeal on the health insurance. >> they are introducing another element. >> it's fascinating. michael steele, what about the freshmen republicans? the media is saying they don't want to do anything at all. they have done something, it's just something that the democratic party hates. >> exactly. they are going to go home and say we did what we said we were going to do. it's a question about boehner and the rest of the caucus. he's not worried about that right now. they have the vote done. they send it to the senate. now, he can carve out the conservatives, the non-tea party conservatives to get the 218. that's the number they are working on now, 217. boehner and the president are at a point where they have the deal pretty much done. it's ticking off a lot of people in town. they are not in the room or at

the table. it's going to be carved out. they will go to their caucuses say this is the deal. it's going to be short-term. then they will work out the rest of the details. >> i don't think it's all bad. if michael is right, he might as well be, then boehner is acting like a speaker. if it passes, you have to do it without the tea party people and with democrats and republicans. that's why i'm not worried about what the president is doing behind the scenes. he can't get democratic votes by cutting medicare and social security. if he pulls it off, he and boehner deserve a lot of credit. >> it seems john boehner and the president built a good relationship. they should have gone golfing three years ago. they built a good relationship. in the middle of this, the back and forth, sam is talking about the expiration of the bush tax

cuts. grover norquist provided an opening that obviously now is causing a ruckous in washington and may be trying to back off a little bit. >> i hope he doesn't. that would be lame. >> because you love taxes. right? >> grover is the one person in washington, d.c., that fights. of course everybody hates him. >> democrats are pouncing on comments made by grover norquist's tax cuts. he raised eyebrows when asked if allowing the bush tax cuts to expire to close the deficit would not constitute a tax increase and not extending them violates the americans for tax reform pledge, norquist told the post, not continuing a tax cut is technically not a tax increase. i couldn't agree more.

when asked if it would break the pledge, he said we wouldn't hold it that way. they spent little time on it. >> i would like to call your attention to a washington post editorial i read today. i think it is particularly important as republicans who signed a pledge, a pledge to mr. norquist saying they would not deal with revenues. i think he's made a very, very important statement that i hope they each take into consideration. >> grover norquist, the hall monitor when it comes to enforcing the republican party anti-tax pledge has given house republicans a hall pass. they should use it. this is a coded message from one of the truest believers in the republican party that it's time for conservatives to step back from the brink. >> so, that's it, right?

>> the hall monitor. >> i'm glad we have one. >> right. >> we need one person. everybody, as we say here, all the editorial writers praise any leader that does the easy thing, raising taxes. the tough thing is going in and cutting the budget. >> right. >> raising taxes isn't that easy for a politician. >> come on now. >> the main thing -- >> they are good at it. >> norquist is regrouping. >> i think he got some calls. >> i think he got some calls. >> there are certain things you can do technically and not violate the pledge. the general public would clearly understand it's a tax increase. that would be clear. americans for tax reform oppose an effort to weaken, or not continue the 2001-2003 bush tax

cuts. >> wait. wait. then he wrote this in today's new york times. i think he's regrouping. can i read it? >> yeah. >> contrary to the hopes of some that i am softening the pledge it is stronger and more important than ever. that will not allow a net. republican leaders have stated they will not allow a net tax hike to be imposed on the american people as part of a debt ceiling deal especially when the goal is to reduce the run away spending. >> we are looking at the tax hike. sam, what's going on here? you followed this all day yesterday. >> it goes down to how do you enforce new revenues to come in. the bush tax cuts are going lapse at the end of 2012. if you do nothing, you have a

big jump in revenue. obama has been saying let's thai the bush tax cuts are going to lapse and we are going to extend the ones for the middle class. republicans are afraid to let him do that up front. it would kill momentum for a tax reform. >> but, but, but why just get rid of the bush tax cuts. if they are so awful, why not get rid of all of them. get rid of all of them for everybody. if tax cuts are the worst thing ever, the bush tax cuts, get rid of the bush tax cuts for everybody and raise billions in revenue. >> right. i think we could probably figure it out sitting around the table. i don't think it's that difficult. they are locked in in political terms. it's a much different issue to them. you can make rational

compromises and deals here. the problem is, how do they do it. what's happening is they are at the point where they realize the consequences. at some point, they realize they have to do something other than hold the ground saying this is it. we're not going to change anything. we are at that point and we have little time to work with. >> howard dean, look what's happening in europe and that's our next story we are going to be talking about. the debt crisis in europe just explo exploded. eu leaders came together and struck a quick deal. they are not out of the woods by any stretch of the imagination. >> they are not. the deal they came to yesterday, advances things significantly. what they did for the first time is allow some private sector folks to take a haircut. they should have allowed that a long time ago. they put together the institutions we have here like a

big central fund, which they don't have. they are 27 different countries rather than a single state. they have a long way to go, though. a lot of what's going on -- frankly a lot of the problem is the short sellers to attack the country. it's caused a lot of the problem. i think they ought to restrict short selling for the duration of all this. that accelerates the panic. you will bring down the good with the bad. they did important things yesterday, not just in helping the greeks, but made it easier for portugal -- it's where there should be recovery quickly. >> the problem they have, a lot of the debts are held by banks of their own country. who are they saving? they are saving their own bank. that's the issue.

the other side of it ends up paying the price. how do they balance it? they are going to have to guarantee the banks and they are guaranteeing the debts through the banks. european leaders agreed to a bold new plan after helping greece get into debt. a new bail out worth $157 billion. they say the package will cover all of greece's financing needs including lower rates and paying back loans. european markets welcomed the latest agreement with all three major. >> you have political news, too. >> yeah, quickly. politico is reporting this, the campaign manager for jon huntsman is leaving her post, quitting. politico reporting the former utah governor is retooling his campaign. staff changes have to do with

entering a more aggressive phase. they could do that. >> more aggressive. >> it's easy. it's not the best. the idea of running for president and the reality of doing it heads that way. the campaigns shuffle. >> i think if you sell that, governor, you could sell that as could i. i think jon huntsman may want to speak above a whisper. that may help. >> there's overcorrecting. >> well, with perry out there looming large you better claim your ground now. >> is perry getting in? >> he will. >> first moves. >> come on. >> he bounces around.

>> yes. >> he's still a bad imitation of will ferrell imitating george w. bush. >> it's true. i sit there watching this guy go on. i'm like is this an "snl" -- i keep waiting for "snl" to go across the bottom. seriously. >> you guys are terrible. >> no. no. >> come on. >> i know we hear he's doing great and more jobs and taxes than on the planet in $8 billion years. nobody talks about the debt down there. i like him. i've met him. >> yes. yes. we have had him on here. >> he's a cocky guy and i like that. >> remember george w. bush. >> we have seen americans with

it for eight years. they are not going to go back. >> the consideration they are going through now. >> howard you know what he's saying. >> he's imitatining george w. bh here. >> it's great but he's going to get bit. coming up, a preview -- >> i think he's getting a lot of back stuff. >> i don't think he does. >> i think he does. >> i think he does. absolutely. >> his prominence and the ground around him. >> look at the closest numbers. the numbers are too tight. >> giuliani is thinking about whether or not? >> i think he doesn't. >> okay. >> we have to go. that was nice of y'all to come. coming up -- >> we have five minutes of

watching me get dressed on air. >> hey, i stretched as long as i could. >> you could have stretched ten more minutes. you are not sorry. you know ha? the people in the control booth know that you are like that. they can keep the show going. >> i'm late so much, too. a preview of "meet the press" with david gregory. >> you pass out with your pills. >> i show up, pills or not. i may not know i'm here. chuck todd, the latest developments from the white house. hoda kotbe is up next. first, let's go to bill karins with a check on the forecast. bill. >> good morning, everyone. historic morning as many of us from new york city to washington, d.c., this is the

hottest morning you will experience when you factor in the temperature. it feels like 94 in new york city right now. 94 is the warmest spot in the whole country at this hour. today, 103 in washington, d.c. 101 in central park. st. louis to kansas city, around 100. the heat index around 110 and 120. as far as this weekend, saturday is still very hot. 102 in new york. things cool off. it is bitterly hot. no relief in oklahoma city. stay by the water, if you can. you are watching "morning joe," brewed by starbucks. i love that my daughter's part fish.

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can you see through the air? it's so hot. welcome back. >> it's going to be like 103 in washington. >> it's time for everybody to stay inside. go to a movie, go to a show. go to a mall. i can't believe i said that. i'm worried about the health of people. do not go to cinnabun or anywhere where you can get a big gulp. it is dangerous. i went jogging yesterday. >> new york we have been suffering through actually a cold, wet, nasty spring. >> i know. >> in washington, i don't think

it's ever been hotter in d.c. it's been over 100. >> it's tough to breathe, almost. it's so gross. >> i came up here and started working up here, it's a difference in weather pattern between new york and washington. i never figured that out. it is a swamp. >> that humidity. >> that's why you hear all that in washington. >> time to look at the morning papers. los angeles times, california voters say the most troubling part of the spending cuts is the cuts to education. that's according to a new poll. one thing they were enthusiastic about, docking legislatures pay for failing a pass a balanced budget by june 15th. what a good idea. >> i know. the san francisco chronicle.

this week, mitt romney was the first gop candidate to hold an event in california. he wasn't alone. battling for attention there, presidential hopeful, jon huntsman and texas governor rick perry. >> chicago tribune. >> yeah, baby. look at this. >> lots of fans in chicago a buzzing about the arrival of wayne rooney. they are in town to play a friendly match against the chicago fire for resently valued men at $1.8 billion. more valuable than the dallas cowboys and the new york yankees. what? >> it's possible. it's tough with european football teams. americans have massive debt problems like liverpool has

problems. our friends, the red sox own them. it's that way across europe except barcelona. they are a force. i had somebody that knows about this tell me, you do not buy these soccer franchises to make money. >> that's why you have russian tycoons with multimillion dollar sellers in there. >> it's just money laundering. >> it was an amazing match in seattle. >> i want to buy the new york yankees. they hosted paul mccartney. it was fantastic. 40,000 seats in less than 24 hours. >> i heard. >> three rows behind the stage. unbelievable.

>> you know what they called him -- >> what did they call him? >> here he is. >> they call me the bug. >> let's bring in now from politico, this is a big, big part of the week for us. >> yeah. i love it. >> mike allen. >> mike. >> say it, mike. >> happy friday. >> it is a happy friday. now mika, they are reporting that rick perry may be getting in there. it's hard. it's hard. >> rick perry for a president button. they have been mailed out. mike huckabee had surprising words saying quote, he found a new commitment to hypersensitivity. how could it be jabbing rick perry. he's opinion a conservative from the beginning. >> mike huckabee, an important

king maker in the early 2012 stakes, home schoolers and e van jell ka's follow him. he sent out an e-mail that says, a newfound hyperconservatism. there's a jab. he has to explain why he was for pro-gay marriage. rudy giuliani last time. jonathan martin remembers the history. last time around mike huckabee asked perry to back him. he became the chairman of rudy giuliani's campaign. >> do you think rick perry is going to jump into the race? >> all the signs are he is.

the top fund-raisers are saying he's getting serious and would do well. it could be a romney, bachmann, perry race before we are done. >> i find that fascinating. do you? >> i think that's the top three i have to talk about. i think it's a fascinating race. >> howard? chris christie? >> i don't think he gets in. it's hard after two years of governing. >> they are begging though. >> begging chris christie to run? >> yeah. most of the people in the world in business finance who are concerned. they think he's a real winner. >> i have heard that. mike allen, thank you. coming up, big news overseas. british numbers papers saying james murdock misrepresented

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37 pastz the hour. welcome to "morning joe." the u.s. justice department is preparing subpoenas as part of the initial investigation into the company. government officials claim people within rupert murdock's company went into voice mails of september 11th victims and bribed british police. it's the latest in the scandal. the local newspapers are saying james murdock misled parliament during testimony this week. that's the headline in today's telegraph.

the guardian reads murdock lied to mps. a lawyer and editor for the now defunct news of the world says he lied when he did not have knowledge of a transcript for a reporter who obtained the records. murdock stands behind his testimony. >> he's got the lawyer, the news corp. lawyer and another saying that they told him all about this e-mail and all about the hacking. it was a massive payout. we have another story, but first the wall street journal has been aggress i haviive the past coup. the first day or two, they were negligent. somebody said wake up and they awakened. i think they have been very aggressive the last two or three days. >> it's easy to see the writing on the wall. you don't want to be the

newspaper that didn't cover it. you need to save your face. >> they said this is who we are. then also covering it. i think it's fair. taken over in the past two years. >> i think the wall street journal is a paper that has been dramatically improved. murdock brought them in. more credit to them out there. >> an there's this -- >> this is the best paper in america. >> really? news corp. advertising arm hacked into the computers of a rival to steal the company's business. a lawyer for the new jersey based company tells nbc news he was contacted this week by a prosecutor and fbi agent seeking information about the claim that is the firm's computers were hacked by a division of rupert

murdock's company. it became a civil suit filed against the ad division. the case was resolved in 2009 when they agreed to pay $29.5 million as part of an out-of-court settlement. >> then the michael isikoff investigation. this adds big problems. i mean -- >> these are serious issues. if you have a pattern of this kind of activity, in england, it's going to be criminal. if there are criminal convicts, that feeds to the company and the company will have to deal with criminal convictions. if you have a criminal conviction you cannot have a tv license under american law. rep recushions of this, if it turns out to be the case are scary. >> they were in front of parliament saying we didn't know about the settlements that were 600,000 pounds, which is

extravagant. this is millions of dollars. to say you didn't know your company paid $29.5 million for a similar violation. >> in the united states, right. >> it's only a matter of time until there's paper evidence or e-mail evidence of him being informed of this. >> they are lawyers in part. that is a separate issue apart from -- >> discovery. right. >> it will. the question is, is this the thing that brings this to the united states? it's always the piece that's been missing. >> the 9/11 families are the two pieces that make it a u.s. issue. pr wise, it's more difficult that you are in england, you are in the united states, you are hacking into people's phone accounts and their computer accounts. it's not only the news arm, the advertising arm. it all adds up.

>> the people are going to come forward. if there's one phone call. >> yeah. >> it is a, just like water gate. after that, the issue of watergate became more important than going after nixon. they are going after the whole company and murdock. it may be unfair, but there you are. >> i know. i know. >> when we come back, the must read opinion pages and more with michael steele, howard dean and stam stein.

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the debt crisis, what does that mean? are they going to raise it or not raise it? do you understand? don't lie to me. nobody knows. nobody knows what they are talking about. they say because of this trouble, we may lose our aaa rating. i say yeah, well why don't you tell the auto club to mind their own business. leave us alone. >> time now for the must read opinion pages. we have good ones today. we are going to start with david brooks. >> over the past few weeks, washington seemed dysfunctional. public disgust has risen to epic levels. they have been responsible and brave. if you are a democrat, you hate

to see domestic cuts. if you are a republican you love revenue increases, even little ones. standing still is not an option. keep your reservations in mind and let the mission continue. okay, new york times the lesser depression by paul krugman. there's an old quotation that always comes to mind when i look at public policy. you do not know, my son, with how little wisdom the world is governed. now that wisdom is on full display of policy elites as both sides bungle the response to economic trauma, ignoring the lessons of history. >> howard dean, does david brooks have it right? are the republicans finally coming or paul krugman, the deficit cuts are only going to extend this small depression?

>> i guess it's both and neither. there have been grown ups -- the nice thing is there are grown ups in washington still. they have input. the problem is, before the election, they may pass something called the grand bargain. then they have to enforce it for the election and the fighting starts over again. we'll see what is in this. i don't think there's going to be specifics. i don't think there's going to be enforceability. we have to pass the debt ceiling. on the krugman side, i have an enormous admiration of him. i think there's too much debt in the system. we have to fix that over time. what the right timetable is, who am i to argue with a nobel laureate? i think he's right, of course. you have to worry about the 1937

phenomena when roosevelt tried to pass a budget. >> the question is, how do you not look at the newspapers in greece, portugal, ireland, italy, california, across america and the states and not realize whether you are a progressive economist or not that we have too much debt in the system. >> the american public understands when you have millions of homes with mortgage that is exceed the value of their homes and credit lines, debt has consequences. they are right. >> would you agree with that howard dean? >> the issue that paul raises is how fast should we get rid of it? it's where we have to be careful. it's great to talk about the debt in washington. most people are worried about jobs, 5-1. paul makes a great point. jobs is the biggest problem, not the deficit.

the deficit has gotten out of hand in almost every western country. there's a few that haven't. most of them have. we have to be mindful that the deficit matters. >> we do. i have never, ever read paul krugman suggest or say the debt matters. he sounds like dick cheney where he says deficits don't matter. anybody who tries to act responsibly on bringing down the deficit. look at every one of his columns. i understand his argument. it's a pure argument and fine, it's legitimate. i disagree with it, but it's a legitimate argument. he never admits that western economies are going up in flames. >> two parts. i can't argue with a nobel

laureate. >> he does not deserve it. he only got it for bashing george w. bush. he is such an ideal log. he is a brilliant man. when he talks economics without his blinders on. 550 word op-eds you can see his brilliance. when he writes the op-eds, really. >> the former white house adviser, you would not put him in the same camp as paul krugman. however, in the past two months or so, he's been giving speeches around the country and talks

where he echoed the point paul krugman is making. it's been cut too steep too soon. we risk the 1937 experience. >> i think we all agree with that. >> put aside whether paul krugman is too mindless about long term debt. i think it's very simple to say that's a way to get out of this recession and expand the taxes. close the deficit and create jobs and a better tax revenue structure. we need to invest. that's what they are trying to say. >> we need to have a stimulus program. >> let's do a stimulus. >> larry somers and paul krugman say we thought it would increase demand. how do you create a stimulus

program, widen the deficit. >> there's the problem. >> david gregory is next. >> no easy choices here. >> no. so this is enzo, the artiste behind my wardrobe.

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look who just showed up. does he think he's part of the show or something? >> i am peter alexander.

>> what are you up to? >> was that you? >> i was like where is it? >> you thought it was an nbc page. >> i thought it was a page. >> okay. are you ready for some football? >> ladies and gentlemen, it's our honor to take you over to the "morning joe" sports desk. peter alexander with the lead. is brian williams still here? you look good. apparently, we are seeing other people. a full day of meetings in atlanta. >> only brian can do that. you can't do that. >> in a sentence, there's a chance for players to vote. >> can i help him? >> if anybody needs 10,000 tickets to the hall of fame game, they are available. >> he feels great. >> if you lean, people think you are lying.

be honest. all right. thank you. take it away. >> it's not proper anymore. i got nothing. up next -- coming up, we'll be right back. [ female announcer ] goodnight gluttony, a farewell long awaited. goodnight, stuffy. goodnight, outdated. goodnight old luxury and all of your wares. goodnight bygones everywhere. [ engine turns over ] good morning, illumination. good morning, innovation. good morning unequaled inspiration. [ male announcer ] the audi a8, chosen by car & driver as the best luxury sedan in a recent comparison test. chosen by car & driver as the best luxury sedan somewhere in america, there's a doctor who can peer into the future. there's a nurse who can access in an instant every patient's past. and because the whole hospital's working together,

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but when she got asthma, all i could do was worry ! specialists, lots of doctors, lots of advice... and my hands were full. i couldn't sort through it all.

with unitedhealthcare, it's different. we have access to great specialists, and our pediatrician gets all the information. everyone works as a team. and i only need to talk to one person about her care. we're more than 78,000 people looking out for 70 million americans. that's health in numbers. unitedhealthcare. there is no deal. no deal publicly, no deal privately. there is absolutely no deal.

i believe we have to act to prevent default and downgrade our credit rating. we have to have a cap and balance. i believe that is the best course of action. i said all the way along, we have to keep the lines of communication open. nobody talked about fallback options. if cap and balance does go down. it's our obligation to have a fallback plan if it doesn't work. >> top of the hour. it is hot in washington. welcome back to "morning joe." sam stein and peter alexander are still with us. it's the nbc guys, they are needy. >> they are needy. >> yeah. look at them. >> also, we have former governor howard team and the editor of nationalmemo.com. joe, great to see you again.

>> great to have you. >> let's begin first of all with, we just heard john boehner talking act a possible debt deal. it looks like john boehner, by day, talks to rush limbaugh and by night is holding secret negotiations at the white house. >> if you believe the newspapers, that's what he's doing, yes. >> oh, yeah, that's the problem. >> it's very hard to tell. every time a leak comes out about the discussions taking place between the republican leaders and the white house, everybody denies ha is happening. it would be an odd time for the president to surrender as they say he is doing when it seems to me the republicans are starting to blink, don't you think? >> what you read about grover norquist yesterday appeared to blink and he's backed off. >> then he said he wasn't

thought a default would be a terrible experiment on the country. you can't have both positions. you can't have the positions we have to have, the house rules with their radical point of view and also say we have to avoid a default. it's not going to work. i don't think the senate is going to accept that. >> grover norquist said to you -- >> yes, to me, in an e-mail. i checked that i could quote it. >> he thought the fall would be a terrible experience. we are getting closer. all sides are saying wait a second. we have our beliefs. we may be ideal ogs. >> he says it's not a big deal to have a default. for whatever reason, they believe against the advice of

economists and the business community now solidly against default, as far as i can tell. >> yeah. >> that it wouldn't matter. it would be okay and people would get their social security checks. people would believe in the full faith of the united states, which they would not. it is interesting to me that grover has been the anti-tax king of washington would say hey, i don't want to play this game. it's not what we should be doing. >> howard dean, isn't that the issue? there are a lot of comparisons to the gingrich class in '94 and '95 and the shutdown. you have greece, italy, portugal, spain, ire lanld. all across the western economies now would be the worst time, my

god, in u.s. history to have a default. >> you can't. there's no good time in u.s. or anybody's history to have an american default. we are the reserve currency of the world. i don't think we would have a default. i think we would pay the interest on the debt. the economy would come to a halt. government checks for social security and veterans would stop. this is madness. i think, even -- everybody except for the farthest right of the 87 tea party people think it's insane. what took this long? >> yeah. >> i don't understand. >> how can we be here on the 23rd of august, in july, and let this get this far.

it's asinine. >> it is asinine. they have been talking about this since january saying this is a huge deal. you're right, it is asinine that democrats didn't start focusing on this until three weeks ago. i couldn't agree with you more. >> what? come on. >> joe, you took a pill this morning. >> did you take mine? wait a minute. did we mix ours? >> i saw him sworn in on january, what was that, the 4th? you know what, he can't handle this. that's the problem. sam stein, the freshmen have been talking. help explain to people like howard dean. could you explain to him, because you were a reporter that gets your hands dirty. they have been talking about

this since early january saying this is the vote. this is the issue. >> yeah. >> we have to get a lot of spending cuts in change for us. >> sure. >> that's why we are here. >> remember, the continuing resolution to keep the government running. they were going to make that the big issue. they brought it to the brink. much fewer cuts in terms of spending than they invisioned. they were upset with john boehner and the deal. they went to the next issue, said we need better deals and deeper cuts. they want entitlement reforms on the table. i think joe is right in this, in that -- >> thank you. >> -- not you. it's another joe. a change of commerce. the u.s. chamber of commerce is the big player yet to weigh in on this. they are worried about default.

they have elected a lot of tea party members. whether they put pressure on them to saddle up and vote. it's going to be determinant of how it is the next couple weeks. >> you have to know the chamber of commerce is whispering in the ear of boehner and has been. boehner is talking deals, then denying them. he talks to the business community who thinks this is inane. the business community has to win this fight or they are in trouble. >> they are going to win the fight. the chamber said they encouraged everybody to do a deal. peter alexander, you always know certain things are going to happen. i remember when we would debate most favorite trade status for china. we fight against it. we always knew. in the end, the chamber and wall

street, they were all going to roll us. in the end, china would win. business wins. they are going to win here, too. that means we are not going to default. >> the frustration for people at home is what took so long. joe, my question to you is you spoke to president clinton this week, i think. what was the guidance he said and what we're not doing in convincing the country of how it should be handled now. >> in president obama's place, he would use the 14th amendment to raise the debt ceiling. he said force the courts to stop me. as a political decision, there's an opinion on both sides as to whether it's the correct position. he was ready to take that risk and he thinks the president should be, too. at the same time, there's so much waste in government. he spent last weekend, he told me, going through a 400 page goa

report on general issues. this is what he loves to do. he sits on the plane and goes through this. you know, i could find $1.5 trillion over the next decade that nobody would notice is going. people talk about waste, fraud and abuse. this is an audited report. apparently, there is a lot of money. >> we talk about corporations not paying their fair share. a lot paying zero. i heard the president and bill clinton doesn't say things unless he had a reason to say things for the most part on policy. i heard president clinton say a week or two ago he thought corporate tax rates should be cut. did you talk to him as to why he said that? >> he did bring that up. he said close the loopholes, make sure everybody pays, then lower the rate. our rate is too high worldwide. the difference is, in other

countries they pay the taxes. so, you know, here they find ways not to. if you can close all that, then if you could make a revenue neutral or gain revenue, there's nothing wrong with lowering the rate. >> that was part of the game in the simpson proposal. >> it is too late. going back to paul ryan's budget, they cut the rate, closed the loopholes. when i came in here, the reason i was late, howard dean was calling me and he said, you're not going to believe this. >> i had no idea. you shouldn't believe this. >> he said have you read peggy noonan's column? >> howard said this to me, mika, please read this.

>> seriously, howard dean. >> the president, if he's trying to overt a debt crisis, he should stay in the office, meet with people. it's odd how he patronizes those with more experience in debt and national affairs. he should keep his face-off tv, get a responsible deal and reemerge with joy as he anounszs it to the nation. for now, for his sake and the sake of an ultimate plan, he should choose strategic silence. really, recent presidents forget to shut up. they lose sight of how grating they are. i don't agree with that. >> are you talking president clinton or president obama? >> they have the same problem. >> i think talking recent presidents. >> i think, by the way --

>> i think clinton offered a lot. >> she's talking president obama. >> i think she's wrong. obama has had a great two or three weeks, i really do. he's on television and beating the daylights out of the republicans. mcconnell and boehner said they know they are going to take the hit if this doesn't work. it's the only way to make them get a deal. i think the president had a terrific three weeks. >> i add to this, it might have been peggy. it was you during the health care thing. everyone said -- everyone said the president is leaving it up to nancy pelosi, where is he? where is he. you left it up front. seriously. >> it makes no sense. >> what dooum? >> it's like telling the ceo of a company to get out of the way. >> why would a democratic president take advice from a republican columnist.

it's bad advice. >> we'll have peggy on and let her defend herself. she's brilliant. >> when leaders stop talking, they get things done. i think she's saying get behind closed doors and make a deal. >> then she should tell boehner to be quiet, too, instead of calling up rush limbaugh. >> maybe we'll get that next week. >> howard, thank you for that. >> that was a great suggestion, howard dean, as always. >> i agree with howard that we better be moving toward a deal. we don't want to find out what will happen if we do the experiment as grover said. it's too dangerous. >> a version of fox news, joe

conason, howard dean, mika brzezinski and sam stein. if that's your version of fox news -- >> it's a fictional sending of peggy's column. >> whatever. whatever. you are looking at this panel thinking -- >> that's why you are so feisty this morning. hoe ta kotb will be up next. david gregory and chuck todd. first, bill karins with a check on the forecast. bill. >> what are you doing to us? >> this heat and humidity is brutal. if you are walking outside this morning, you may have never experienced the heat and humidity at this hour of the morning. new york city is still the hottest location east of the rockies. heat index is 94. the temperature is taken in the

shade. if you are in the sun, it's worse than this. we are going to see heat today like yesterday, if not worse. 103 in d.c., 101 in new york. still in the 100s in the midwest. saturday is the hottest day. 102 by the time sunday arrives. a little bit of a break if you call a break in the 90s. you are watching "morning joe" on this hot morning. boy, i'm glad we got aflac huh. aflac! oh, i've just got major medical... major medical. ...but it helps pay the doctors. pays the doctors, boyyy! [ quack ] oh yeah? what about your family? ♪ we added aflac, so we get cash! it's like our safety net... ♪ to help with the mortgage or whatever we need! so my family doesn't feel the pain too. ha! [ male announcer ] help protect your family at aflac.com. [ pigeons ] heyyy! hooo!!!

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we learned other things along the way. you can't put somebody in the oval office who hasn't had experience leading a large enterprise with a public come ponette to it. he was a college professor. he was a community organizer. he was in the united states senate long enough to have a cup of coffee before it got cold. now we put him in the oval

office and made him the leader of our nation and wonder why it didn't work. we don't want to make that mistake, again. >> welcome back to "morning joe." tim pawlenty's campaign has not taken off. just can't take off. >> it goes back to the first debate. you have a moment. you have a chance of really doing a knock-out punch on romney. a lot of people kind of looked at it and went okay and moved on. >> wow. >> look at these numbers. >> i'm curious your thoughts on the migraine headaches jab on bachmann. >> it's unfair. >> it's totally unfair. there's no place in this mix. i think she's smart. she got in front of it early. the doctors talked to the press. it was a cheap shot to go there. >> joining us from washington, moderator of "meet the press,"

david gregory and host of the daily rundown, chuck todd. >> can we get a split screen here? >> he's a better singer. a much better singer. >> it's how close we were in the bureau. >> thanks for being on. >> guys, it looks like we are getting closer to a deal. david, what do you think? >> i think that the more silence there is, the more indication that's the deal. we had a circumstance where to do this publicly, the president was criticized for not leading and hammering home a position. he tried that strategy, the problem was, it didn't get over the line because of the intransigent of the people who didn't want tax increases, no way, no how. now he's trying a stealthier process with speaker boehner. we expect as early as today a

balanced amendment. those opposed can say look, we voted for our principal's position, what we thought should happen. now, let's get to the deal. you have to get, whether they are lawmakers or special interest, they have to come to the table and come with a solution. you can't just hammer this and kill this from outside and say you are doing some kind of service. >> chuck todd, john boehner and barack obama seem to be, right now, the odd couple working together. >> right. >> it seems like they have, well, right now, kindred spirits. >> it's real. some people, even some republicans shake their head going you have no idea, these two really have bonded. the joke is they must have bonded over smoking on the golf course. the president supposedly quit

smoking. they shake their head about it. this relationship has gotten good. if this is the deal that goes forward, and i think we are going to have a weekend that's part selling on substance for both sides on the basis and part soothing' goes. the entire u.s. is cut out of this process. nothing motivated john boehner to work with president obama more than how toxic the mcconnell idea was among the republican base. it was like the it was like do you deal with mcconnell or obama. boehner chose to deal with obama. that says how much they didn't like the deal. >> did that give him space with eric cantor? >> yes. >> he had to worry about cantor cutting him off at the knees. mcconnell gave him the space, huh? >> it gave him the space. it doesn't mean it was

mcconnell's intention. >> let's add something else here. what did the tea party come to washington to do? to cut government spending. are you going to sign on to a deal in the smallest way possible and raise the debt ceiling? given what they are talking about, if there's real tax reform, it becomes another huge thing. boehner is a legislature here. this is not a great day for washington. i think we can all agree, there's been a failure of leadership all around. if you look at our poll this week in terms of ratings of congress and ratings of the president, people are wondering why washington would take the economy this far to the brink over ideology. at least there's legislating going on and goes back to the core purpose of what they want, to cut government spending. they have the opportunity to do that here based on what we are

doing. >> are you surprised of john boehners experience. he has, in a way gingrich never did, john boehner stayed out of the way. he hasn't made this about himself. you don't see a lot of embarrassing profiles about john. i'm surprised. i'm surprised he's been as successful as he's been thus far. >> i don't think he wants to start off his speakership with a failure on this issue. this makes or breaks him. he's being constructive. it's helpful. i agree you cannot do these things in public debate. >> yeah. >> it hardens both sides. it makes it more difficult. he understands that and i hope the president understands that. >> he's risking his speakership. he's setting that aside for the grand bargain for a bigger deal in washington. it says a lot about your wharkt and your ability to get things

done and take the title and say it's not about being a speaker and congressman, it's about what i was elected to do. boehner has been doing it. >> there's that part of it and another part, too, chuck. we were saying off air that grover norquist right now is boxed in. he's boxed in because he told joe a default would be horrible. john boehner knows the same thing. default is unthinkable at this point. so, he doesn't have a lot of options. >> he doesn't. what he was trying to do was figure out all of the leaders didn't want to play chicken with default. the problem was, they couldn't figure out if they had the votes. it's still not clear. i'm intrigued to see how the idea of the dual enforcement mechanism gets it. you are going to have one, if the deal is as the way i understand it, they announce 3 trillion they know for sure and

the idea of entitlement reform and the penalty for not getting it done. taking funding and the mandate away from the president's health care plan and forcing an elimination of the bush tax cut. that's the incentive. it's not a bad -- >> sorry, i like that. it's a trigger. >> it's interesting to see it. both the speaker and the president are trying to sell that now. >> their greatest success has been in charming the president. back in the clinton days, the republicans used to worry the president was charming the speaker. >> which hefsz. >> now, i think democrats in the senate worry the speaker captured the president and gotten him to do a deal or think about doing a deal that is pretty much the republicans way. if there are no revenue increases that are really enforceable and up front, then this will be 90% boehners way

because the speaker convinced the president he was on his side. >> right. >> let me ask a question to you and chuck. i don't think nancy pelosi is yet to be heard from. they can't do this without democratic votes. >> absolutely. >> what is going on behind the scenes with john boehner and nancy pelosi? >> it goes to chuck's point, too. there's a lot of work to be done on the part of the president. we need the deal and democrats need to sign on. we need to give away things up front but we are going to get it as we go on. we have had a fight over the tax cuts. we are going to prevail on it, but it's going to take longer. the bigger the deal, the grander the bargain, the president concluded the better for him and his re-election. this is an issue the republicans started and the president wants to finish. it's how you have to look at it. i picked up the manual of government spending cuts and i

got it done. >> never underestimate a personal relationship. reagan and tip o'neill had a great relationship. they did something about social security. if boehner and the president established that, it's a huge part of accomplishing that. >> it's good politics for the president. it's not necessarily for nancy pelosi to get back to the speakership. what's interesting here, the way it could be constructed, it's good for the republican majority and the president's re-election. not for mitch mcconnell's goal of being senate majority leader or pelosi's idea of being speaker. it's the weird quadruple. >> you are exactly right. joe conason, you have nancy pelosi who wants one thing. you have a president, also, who

saw the democratic party carry independents into 2006 by 18 percentage points and lost by 18 percentage points in 2010. they are upset. they know. they have lost 47% of the country. they are obsessed with getting 3.5% of the independents. >> he will depress his base. every poll shows that the republicans in the house are very much in the minority in the country now. most people think we shouldn't cut entitlements. most people think we should get rid of the bush tax cuts, especially on the very wealthy. why the president decided he needs to surrender to boehner on these issues at a time when the polls are on his side and grover norquist is blinking is hard for nancy pelosi to understand.

>> there's one reason i was saying the quirkiness of politics, they want to raise taxes in 2011 and 2012. you do not want to be the guy out there. >> at the end of the day, also, let's say there's default. the markets collapse, europe collapses, china decides they are going to call the loan. the interest rates go up at the end of the day. that's an area john boehner may get dinged. that's a nightmare. it's a nightmare scenario for any president. >> no question about it. no question about it. it's going to be a long weekend. >> david gregory, thank you. watch "meet the press" sunday. we will. >> it will end with us watching "meet the press." >> absolutely. chuck todd, thank you. we'll see you on the daily run down right after "morning joe."

>> who do you have on? >> claire mccaskill. we'll see how they feel about being cut out of the loop on the deals. why did rahm emanuel walk out of this local interview? oh, dear. >> he did calmly, with a smile on his face. he's not that kind of a guy. >> not at all. >> i'm that kind of a guy. we'll be right back [ female announcer ] now you can apply sunblock to your kids' wet skin. new neutrogena® wet skin kids. ordinary sunblock drips and whitens. neutrogena® wet skin cuts through water. forms a broad spectrum barrier for full strength sun protection. wet skin. neutrogena®.

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okay. if you want to be like joe, just be late all the time. when you are talking just blah, vomit the words out. right now, we are going to get news. do you want to really know how it's done? there's peter alexander. >> the next generation of job creators. nice to meet you. >> don't lean. >> the national unemployment rate is 9.2%. one area in california is predicting job growth. according to a new study, silicon valley employers plan to expand their work force by 16% over the next two years. tom brokaw was recently there and he has the latest. >> reporter: silicon valley, the

mother lode of the high-tech business. some of the hottest new names in video games and online services are expected to go public for ast nom cal prices. a lot of suddenly wealthy people are in the need for a new car or a home. >> homes are selling over list price sometimes several hundred thousand over. >> reporter: who are the people getting rich or hoping to in the middle of a great recession? >> record breaking month. >> this two are two of them. >> introducing fox.net. >> reporter: in 2005, they opened a company called box. they share files from iphones, ipads and androids. they almost doubled their work force. they are up to 6 million users. they are moving to a new

building, six times as large. >> we wanted to be where there's more capital and more resources. >> reporter: they expect more than triple their revenue for the forseeable year. >> the biggest temptation is to do too much. we are growing quickly. we need to focus on what is going to drive them to the business. >> reporter: every corner in the silicon valley has an office park fully occupied by high-tech companies. of course it was like that in the '90s, then the bubble burst. could it again? it could happen again, he says. this time, conditions are different. the whole world now is the marketplace. >> you can start a business anywhere and it will spread around the world fairly quickly because we now have 3 billion users of cell phones and 2 billion users on the internet. >> thank you very much. >> reporter: they aren't thinking of going broke.

they are having too much fun growing their company. they must be doing something right. big money experts say they could get $600 million for box right now. but, it's not for sale. >> that was tom brokaw reporting from silicon valley, mika. >> how dong peter did? i know. we're working on them. coming up, today hoda kotb is here.

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my children are not an

instrument of me being mayor. my children are my children. that may be news for you and that may be news for you marian, but i'm making this decision as a father. i look forward to our future interview. >> please! >> what in the world? >> they were asking about public or private school. >> this is like a chris christie thing. >> you want to see that. here it is. >> all right. >> you don't send your children to public schools. you send them to private schools. why do you think it's fair to cut school funding to public schools. >> what's her name? >> real quick. the governor is talking. what is it? gail. talk to gail. >> gail, it's none of your business. i don't ask you where you send

your kids to school, don't bother me about what i send mine. >> who did it better? >> rahm emanuel. it's about tone. >> i think chris christie. >> you do? >> i think it was harsh. >> he was mad afterwards. i think she had a legitimate question and that's what he said. he said that's the way i answered it, there. >> interesting. >> christie is a voter. with rahm, it was a media personality. i feel rahm handled it better. >> chris christie, you ask why he acts like that. he says this is who i am. you voted for me. i liked it. good tone with rahm as well. joining us now, hoda kotb. her book, "how i survived."

you are still surviving kathy lee. >> peter tweeting he promised a better drink than this. >> is there really -- you really -- could i -- if i came on the show -- >> when you come on the show. >> i do have a vodka. a full glass of vodka. >> i keep wondering what i drink. sometimes i wonder like are we fired? >> yeah. >> in the middle of the show, you have to ask yourself, is this the right thing. >> i ask myself that every day. every day. so your book is out in paperback. >> yes, it is. >> what i find interesting, in the process of getting it, then you start hearing from people about it? >> yeah. >> how has it been received? >> are you surprise snd. >> i think you bond with people in your weak spot. >> yeah. >> okay.

all the stuff i thought was funny and blah, blah, they don't mention that. they mention when you are on your knees as you had a difficult time in your life. i went through breast cancer and a divorce at the same time. no matter what your hell was, they connected on that level. if you survive anything bad and at the end you are still standing, you get four words. you get you can't scare me. you feel strong. it's funny. i think that's where people related, i thought. maybe it's the stuff about work or whatever. i think it's more, you are stronger in the broken places. >> you get better, literally, you get better. >> yeah, yeah, yeah. >> physically better, healthy, but also it makes you better. >> it does. >> you can stand-up to it. >> you know what's funny, after i got sick and got better, the

fourth hour of "today" started. i did something i never thought i would in my life. we wait to be noticed. work harder, maybe you will see me. >> we are so much alike. i thought i'm going to ask for something. i hit 52 and went to see jeff. normally, my heart is pounding. i walked in, had a regular conversation. i said look, i got sick, i got better, i feel different. i would like to try out this job. if i hadn't gotten sick, i wouldn't have had the guts to ask. i wouldn't be working. >> female characteristic, too late. >> i remember. >> we have known each other a long time and had similar careers and the way we were received by management.

i decided to ask for something, too. i didn't get it. >> you took what was yours. if they don't give it to you, you take it. >> you know what i love? >> what? >> how uncomfortable they look. look at that. >> talk amongst yourselves. >> how does it feel, guys? any contributions? >> think of the gender break. men sometimes don't ask for things, too. >> really? >> yeah. to me, hoda, you have been a great mentor to me. don't settle for safe. >> yeah, yeah, yeah. >> i think that's a lot of good advice. you had that experience and a lot of other people we pray won't have that experience. you have to be proactive. clearly, it's what propelled you. >> guys are quick to say to the boss, look what i did. >> yeah.

>> it seems so transparent. >> yeah. >> you strung yourself in christmas lights and say how great you are. >> i haven't >> you didn't do the christmas light. >> i'm jewish. >> okay. there you go. >> i put menorahs on my shoulder. >> it is a female trait. >> jl1yeah. >> but, i mean, you emerged and you changed and you're different than you were. >> i'm much more comfortable talking about things especially given, you know, the topic of your book and mine in terms of asking for money, talking about money and i actually did an event at the tory burch foundation talking to small business owners, women that probably would love your book. and they still don't feel comfortable talking about what they're worth. >> i agree. >> and how to get ahead and to ask for something. and i think it is the bottom line, you have to ask. and by the way, you have to ask again and you have to ask again and again and again and again. and it's not unseemly and you

should not be uncomfortable, and when you do, you're cluttering your brain with things that people aren't thinking about and you're getting in the way of yourself. >> yeah, yeah, yeah, it's true. >> it's amazing sometimes for us and challenge and really tough experiences, raw, brutal experiences, are the ones that finally cleanse your brain of the clutter, do you know what, screw it, i'm asking. >> isn't that funny? yeah, it takes something like that. and i find with women at the top when they get to the top of management at times, we talked is it better to have a female or a male boss, what works better. >> good question. >> i think with women sometimes when we get to a certain level, you feel that other women might be gunning for your job. it's different with guys. it's a whole different thing. and we talked about do we think that women bosses are better or male bosses. >> uh-huh. >> i've had great female bosses and ones that are terrible and i've had the same with guys, but i think sometimes when you get to the top drawer when it comes to women, women turn into men a little bit. >> uh-huh. >> they want to be accepted.

>> actually, they're better at being more competitive and tough because they know the weaknesses that can keep you down. >> yeah. >> and i think that's something you should try to be transparent about but ultimately it's the mix and it's good people at the top always help. >> you look really good. >> really? >> the green and the makeup and the hair. the whole thing. >> i'm happy this happened. >> i'm sorry i ignored you guys. >> it's a beautiful thing. >> we had our girl talk. >> you have a great show today. >> thanks. >> and thank you very much for being on. the book is "hota how i survived war zones, bad hair, cancer, and kathie lee," who we love! >> we love, a lot, a lot. coming up, why is one of wall street's most successful hedge funds being described as a cult? we'll be back with more "morning joe."

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steak if it lands on his desk, he'll sign this puppy. >> we would take that bet, and i would refrain from heading to the safeway to buy wine, because the president has very clearly vowed to veto a bill if such a bill were to arrive on his desk. good morning, it's friday, a sweltering hot friday morning. 8:00 on the east coast, if you take a live look at a steamy new york city. back with us on set we have sam stein, mort zuckerman, who is so bored. >> hanging out with paul mccartney. >> yeah, yeah, yeah. >> his business is in the droll drums. michael steele, and in washington, former governor howard dean. with the deadline looming just 11 days away, president obama is expected to hold a town hall on the deficit in maryland today, it comes amid reports that the president and the house speaker, john boehner, are advancing towards a last-minute

deal, news that has some democratic leaders in an uproar. at issue, a plan that would reportedly save $3 trillion over the next decade through steep cuts in spending but offers no specific tax increases. concerns about entitlement cuts are prompting many lawmakers to say the house's so-called cut, cap and balance plan will fail in the democratic-controlled senate. harry read has moved up a vote on the legislation to today instead of tomorrow but not before blasting the bill on the senate floor. >> i think this piece of legislation is about as weak and senseless as anything that has ever come on this senate floor, and i'm not going to waste the senate's time day after day on this piece of legislation which i think is anathema to what our country's all about. i feel confident that this legislation will be disposed of one way or the other. the american people should understand that this is a bad piece of legislation.

perhaps some of the worst legislation in the history of this country. >> the senate is scheduled to stay in session this weekend to work on a deficit bill. the house, however, will not be in session. yesterday harry reid slammed house republicans for their decision to take the weekend off. we'll move on now, though, to grover norquist. have you heard about this? >> i have. i was curious, though, what howard dean thought about this deal. democrats are upset, governor, that the president may be making a deal with john boehner that doesn't have the type of tax increases that they want. does it sail by the president or should he take the deal? >> we don't know what the deal is, joe. it's hard to opine about something that nobody knows what's in it. >> harry reid has a pretty good idea and so do democratic leaders in the house that there aren't increases in taxes along the lines that they wanted. the bush tax increases don't come into effect.

>> well, again, joe, i mean, what does go into effect? look, the principle here is you got to have increase in revenues and also budget cuts. and that spreads the pain from people who make a million dollars all the way to people who are barely getting by which is what -- that's the core principle. if that is principle's in the deal, it's great. if it's not in the deal, it's probably not going to pass. >> sam, what are you hearing on the hill? >> the reason that harry reid and others are upset in part because of the content of the deal and also because they're not in the room. >> boehner a week ago said there are too many people involved in the deal and it looks like the president has listened to john boehner and shut his people out. >> the president understood the way to get anything done immediately was to work through the house and the way to work through the house is to have boehner and cantor there, and the last time he did it, cantor swooped in and blew it up.

they brought roinle oveveryone weekend and then met with democrats and republicans. the people that mattered in the negotiations did not know what was being discussed until the next day's news. >> the democrats are upset. on the republican side, mort, should john boehner take the chance of doing this without eric cantor than having eric cantor do what he did last time, cut him off at the knees? >> i don't think he'll be worried about cantor at this stage of the game. i think he knows what to do to keep cantor and the people he represents in the house with him. the much more difficult part will be the democrats now and this is where the president assumes that they're going to have to follow his lead, because otherwise it will be a disaster for the democrats. at this point if it doesn't go through and everything as we are describing it is the case, the democrats will be blamed for this. this is the last thing in the world they need. >> the key sticking point, they have revenues on the table, the sticking point is to ensure the revenues are there in the end. democrats are saying, listen,

we'll set up a commission, they have to raise $800 billion in ten years, but if that doesn't work, we want a fallback the cut in the bush tax cuts on the high earners. how about if it doesn't work, you can get the expiration of the bush tax cuts but we also get the repeal of the individual mandate in the health care insurance law. so, they're introducing another element to ensure that something -- >> that's fascinating. and, michael steele, what about the freshmen republicans who actually passed a piece -- everybody said they do nothing. no, the media's saying that they don't want to do anything at all these freshmen republicans. they have done something. it's just something that most in the media and in the democratic party hate. >> right, exactly. so, they're going to go back home and say, look, we did what we said we were going to do. with respect to the question about boehner and the rest of the caucus, he's not worried about that right now, because they've got that vote done, they've sent it on to the senate. now he can go ahead and carve out the conservatives, the

non-tea party conservatives in the caucus to get to 218. 217, that's the number they're working on. and boehner and the president are at a point where they feel like they have the deal pretty much done, and it's ticking off a lot of people in town because sam said they're not in the room or at the table. the thing will be carved out and they'll go to their respective caucuses and said this is the deal, it's short term and it will get it done and over the next six weeks or months, whatever the timetable is, we'll work out the rest of the details. >> i don't think that's all bad. i actually think if michael's right, and he may well be, then boehner is really acting like a speaker. if a gee sedecent deal passes, have to do it without the tea party and with both republicans and democrats. i'm not worried about the so-called what is the president doing behind the scenes because he can't get democratic votes for cutting social security and medicare without tax increases. if he pulls it off, both he and boehner deserve a lot of credit. >> mika, it seems john boehner

and the president have built a pretty good relationship. they should have gone golfing three years ago. how fascinating in the middle of all this fight, the back and forth you have sam talking about the expiration of the bush tax cuts, but grover norquist provided a bit of light, provided an opening, that obviously now is causing a ruckus in washington. >> it is. >> and grover may be trying to back off a little bit. >> i hope he doesn't, that would be lame. >> because you love taxes, right? and grover is the one person in washington that you see who fights to stop taxes from going up, of course, everybody hates him. >> democrats are now pouncing on comments made by anti-tax advocate grover norquist about tax cuts. he raised eyebrows yesterday in his remarks to "the washington post." when asked if allowing the bush tax cuts to expire to close the deficit would not constitute a tax increase, and it's not extending them would violate his

americans for tax reform pledge, which many republicans have signed, norquist told "the post," quote, not continuing a tax increase. i couldn't agree more. >> of course. >> when asked, again, if it would break the pledge, norquist said, quote, we wouldn't hold it that way. steny hoyer and chuck schumer wasted little time in seizing on norquist's remarks. >> i would like to call your attention to a "washington post" editorial that i read today, because i think it is particularly important as republicans who signed a pledge, pledge to mr. norquist, saying that they would not in any way deal with revenues, i think mr. norquist has made a very, very important statement that i hope that they each take into consideration. >> grover norquist, the hall monitor, when it comes to enforcing the republican party's anti-tax pledge, has given house

republicans a hall pass. they should use it. this is a coded message from one of the truest believers in the republican party, that it's time for conservatives to step back from the brink. >> so, that's it, right? mika? >> he is like the hall monitor. >> again, i'm glad we have one. we need one person, because everybody as we say here, all the editorial writers across america praise any leader that does the easy thing, which is raising taxes. the tough thing is actually going in and cutting a budget. >> right. i think it's tough to do both. >> because the fact -- >> raising taxes isn't that easy for a politician. >> come on, you know. >> the mainstream media -- >> come to maryland. >> all right. well, norquist is sort of regrouping. i think people might have called him yesterday. >> i think he got some calls. >> i think he got come calls. norquist walked back his comment during an interview with msnbc. >> there are certain things you

could do technically and not violate the pledge but that the general public would clearly understand is a tax increase, so i can be clear, americans for tax reform would oppose any effort to weaken, reduce, or not continue the 2001-2003 bush tax cuts. >> wait, wait. but -- and then he wrote this -- it happens to be in today's "new york times" by grover norquist, so i think he's regrouping. can i read it? >> yeah. >> contrary to the hopes of some that i ham somehow softening the pledge, it is stronger and more important than ever, but ultimately the pledge is only one expression of the republican's commitment to shrinking the side of the federal government. republican leaders have repeatedly and clearly stated that they will not allow a net tax hike to be imposed on the american people as part of a debt ceiling deal especially when the goal of that deal is to reduce the runaway spending now damaging america's economic future and killing the jobs. >> we're looking at the net tax hike. sam, what is going on here? you followed this all day

yesterday. >> it, again, goes down to how can you enforce new revenues to come in. over all of this the bush tax cuts in totality will end at the end of 2012. obama has been saying up front let's say the bush tax cuts for the upper enders will lapse and we'll extend the ones for the middle-class. the republicans are afraid to allow him to uncouple them because they feel it would undo the momentum to undo tax reform. he wants to convince him not to decouple them and do tax reform. >> if the bush taxes are so awful, why not do what peter orszag said and get rid of all of them. get rid of all of them for everybody. if tax cuts are the worse thing ever, as democrats say, the bush tax cuts are so horrific, get rid of the bush tax cuts for everybody and raise billions in revenues! >> right. i think we probably could figure

it out sitting around this table. i don't think it would be that difficult. those guys are all so locked in in political terms and ideology terms, it's a much different issue for them. >> much tougher. >> and you can make absolutely rational compromises and deals here, the problem is how do they do it and i think what's happening now they are at the point they realize the consequences of a default which would be catastrophic, at some point they realize they have to do something other than holding the ground and saying this is it, we're not going to change anything. i hope we're at that point because we have very little time to work with. >> howard dean, look what's happening in europe, and that's the next story that we'll be talking about. but the debt crisis in europe has just exploded, eu leaders have come together and they've struck a quick deal. but that -- they're not -- they're not out of the woods by any stretch of the imagination. >> no, they're not. the deal that they came to yesterday actually does advance things significantly.

what they did for the first time was allow some private sector folks to take a haircut, which they should have done a long time ago. and they've also begun the process of putting together some of the institutions that we have here, like a big central fund. which they don't have, because they're really a conglomeration of 27 different countries rather than a single group of states. so, you know, they got a long way to go, though. you know, a lot of what's going on, frankly, a lot of the problem here is the ability of short sellers to attack the different countries' bonds. and that has really caused a lot of this problem, and i think frankly they ought to restrict short selling for the duration of all this, because that just accelerates the panic, and you will bring down the good with the bad. but they did do some important things yesterday. not just in helping the greeks, but they also made it easier for portugal and ireland -- for the contagion not to spread to portugal and ireland, which i think are both countries where

there should be some recovery fairly quickly. >> the problem they have a lot of the debts are held by the banks of their own countries, so who are they saving, they're saving their own banks. that's the issue, you know? you stick it to one side of it, but the other side of it ends up paying the price. and so how do they balance it is the issue, because otherwise they're in a sense going to have to guarantee the banks and therefore they're guaranteeing the debt through the banks. coming up, a rare look behind the scenes of the world's biggest hedge funds. john cassidy takes inside the wall of bridge water associates, their recipe for success and why they compare it to a cult. >> a cult? >> a cult where you, like, bathe in money? >> a cult, a money cult. >> okay. china is steaming ahead with advanced infrastructure projects, but is their building boom a bubble waiting to burst? harvard economic professor ken rogoff explain s to us why it

could come crashing down. but, first, your hot weekend forecast, with bill karins. >> it's been bad. it's one of the hottest mornings we've ever seen on i-95. we're breaking records out there this morning. temperatures already, the heat index, is approaching 100. we're 97 in boston. we're 97 in new york, and 98 in d.c. later on today, again, this is the temperature itself, not the heat index, the temperatures will be 100 to 105, the heat index will be 110 to 120s in the big cities on the east coast. saturday it will be lower. it will still be oppressive, but not as bad as today. on sunday, we get relief through the northern half of the country, but we'll suffer with heat wave through the midwest next week. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. ♪ knowing what this world is about and you can scream let me out ♪

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♪ it's making people who are in trouble and facing losing their homes and having more foreclosures, we're going to come to their assistance. in the financial reform bill passed last summer, we in the conference committee voted to take this money from an assessment on the largest financial institutions. we voted that financial institutions with $50 billion or more in assets and hedge funds with $10 billion or more in assets would have to pay for this. and our logic was that it was the activity of these institutions that caused the crisis. >> you know, mika --

>> yeah. >> it's a very hot and steamy washington, d.c.? >> ridiculous. >> you would jump in fountains in the good old days. but back in the '60s and '70s, parents were afraid that kids would leave home and join cults. >> yeah, that was a big concernx >> and do all kind of crazy things. >> crazy. >> most cults have a negative connotation. >> they take you over and -- >> do strange things. put tennis shoes you on. >> entrap your mind. >> but what if you could be a member of a money cult? sort of this bizarre rituals and maybe they make you eat $100 bills. >> take a bath in money. yeah. >> there's a, quote, money cult in our midst. and look who is here to talk about it! >> joining us now staff writer, john cassidy, whose article takes a rare look inside the world's richest hedge fund. >> and you say the strangest. you say they are like a cult. >> no. >> how can i become a member of

the wealthy cult? >> who are they and how can i get in? >> mika said there are like a cult. there have been a series of articles printed in hedge fund magazines saying they are a cult. i asked if i if could write about them, and they said come in. >> and what is it about this organization that draws those kind of descriptions? >> well, number one, it's the richest, most powerful hedge fund in the world. most people don't know much about hedge funds, they're incredibly secretive. this fund is run by a charismatic leader, ray dalio, who made $2 billion or $3 billion last year, it's incredibly rich, it is very secretive. they have their own rules and use their own language and their own way of looking at the world, and they get a lot of young people in who spend their lives there and, you know, there are certainly some cultlike features. >> what's the difference between this hedge fund, you said they're all secretive, and other hedge funds, that draws the

attention here that is called one of the world's richest and -- >> bridgewater. >> -- and strangest. >> one, they're more successful than anybody else, they have $100 billion under management and they make astronomical amounts of money. that's one thing. the other thing is the man who is leading it, ray dalio, as i say, who is a very charismatic guy, has his views about the world. if you work there, you are not allowed to talk to your colleagues behind their back. if you say something critical to somebody, you got to call them in and say it to their face. it's called radical transparency. if you think that somebody did a bad job on a segment, you say look, i think you did a terrible job. >> under lings can say it about at the executives at the top. >> yeah, that's what they call it. they call it radical transparency. i think that's exaggerated. i didn't see anybody criticizing ray dalio. >> let me read the what you write in the article.

here's what you write, many hedge fund managers stay pinned their computer screens day and night. dalio is different, he spends most of his time trying to figure out how economic and financial events fit together in a coherent framework. almost everything is like a machine he told me one day, nature is the machine, family is a machine, the life cycle is like a machine. his constant goal he said was to understand how the economic machine works. >> yeah, well, you get a sort of sense of, you know, this sort of strange outlook he has on life, though, to him the economy is just the same, you know, as nature. it's just another aspect of nature, so he thinks there's sort of common principles underlying what investors do just as there's common principles underlying, you know, what animals do. he famously compared investing to attacking wildebeests on the african plain. so, you know, he's just got a very strange and sort of unique perspective on the world. and if you want to work there -- >> which works for him.

>> it seems to have earned him billions of dollars. and if you work there, you got to buy into this idea, that's why people refer to it as a cult. >> they probably look at him the way they do in the marketplace, you know, the guys and gals that he plays with, because he is outside of the normal. >> right. >> even for a secretive body of hedge funds as hedge funds tend to be, he's a little bit different, because he does bring a different take on it. and if you have a perception it's a machine, and nature's time, he understands the human component that drives the decisions not just within his hedge fund but those outside. did you see a lot of that? >> most investors when they come down to it, they do one or two things. they do things called momentum investing which is where you basically follow what everybody else is doing and try to get in first, or they do value investing which you try to buy beaten-up stocks where they do inventive investing where you are trying to get ahead of emerging acquisition. dalio is what they call a

macroinvest macroinvestor, he tries to figure out where the economy is going, what is happening in greece, how will that affect the dollar and european bonds and he places big bets on currency. >> he had success doing that. >> success, he earned 45% in 2010. >> you say, though, he places big bets, but you say he's a singles and a doubles hitter. he doesn't swing for the tensiontension fences. he doesn't take stupid risks. he makes a lot of money but he makes it by keeping in the middle of the road. >> singles and doubles for him is bets of several billion. it's not $25 on the ibm stock. but it's such a big firm they place 20 or 30 different bets at the same time, so if one of them goes wrong and the other ones pay off. he told me if 60% of his bets pay off he can beat the market. and in 2010, last year, 80% of his bets paid off and that's why they had, you know, a gangbusters year. >> and he also, how fascinating, that he actually warned the bush administration in 2007 about the

coming crash? >> i think that's really what separates dalio from most of his competitors. it's fun to talk about all the other cultlike aspect of the firm and that's what the media focus on, but the guy, "a," has an incredible investment record, but, "b," he was the first guys to call the end of the housing bubble and the bust and he went to washington and said, look, this will be bigger than you realize, you've got to do something about it. and nobody took notice of him but that's all on the record. he wrote articles about it at the time, he's a serious economic thinker as well as an investor and sort of management guru. >> yeah. >> i was just going to digress briefly with you, john. i know by your accent are not from south florida or texas. but from overseas. >> brooklyn. >> you worked at the sunday "times," you worked at the "new york post" as one of the editors, and i'm curious for your insights as you witness what happened with the murdoch

family and james murdoch and where it goes from here. >> it's a fascinating story. the murdochs basically drew a line in the sand at the hearings in britain a couple days ago. there's a lot of terrible things going on, a lot of people are culpable, but we didn't know about it. they did a good job i thought. the problem with the story, it's got to stand up. if it stands up, they escape. if it doesn't, they're in big trouble. some of the executives blamed, are saying, hey, we told james murdoch, james murdoch didn't understand why they paid people off, he was new at the job, he agreed to go along with it. the legal manager and the former editor of the "news of the world," two very senior executives at news international have issued aut!ñ statement say that's not true, we actually briefed him in detail on, he knew exactly what was happening. it's not clear if that's the sort of start or trend and

people are concerned and say the murdochs got it all wrong and they were lying basically to parliament, then they're in big trouble. >> with all you know and your experience, you working in the community, do the murdoch statements align with what you've heard about rupert murdoch as far as being a hands-on owner? >> well, when i worked for the british papers, murdoch was very hands on. to be fair to him, his story about him taking a less in an interest in recent years, it's true, i think. he did put his son in charge over there, and i think he spends a lot less time day to day with the newspapers than he used to do. but there will be a judicial inquiry over there. everybody is going to be deposed. so, all the details are going to come out. i don't think the murdochs would have put this story out unless they think they can sustain it. >> it can hold up. >> but it will be fascinating to see. >> john cassidy, thank you so much. >> this is a fascinating story. >> your article is in the new

issue of the "new yorker," good to have you. >> thanks so much. china's infrastructure is booming with high-speed trains and you you towering skyscraper. >> and we hear they are going to take everybody over. it is exploding. it's going faster since, i don't know, southeast asia in the late '90s, and japan in the mid-'80s. >> like a bubble. we'll be right back. boy, i'm glad we got aflac huh. aflac! oh, i've just got major medical... major medical. ...but it helps pay the doctors. pays the doctors, boyyy! [ quack ] oh yeah? what about your family? ♪ we added aflac, so we get cash! it's like our safety net... ♪ to help with the mortgage or whatever we need! so my family doesn't feel the pain too.

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it's got to be about the people. it's not just profit. this country was built by equality and opportunity for all. this is how we got great. we need to stay great. we need to refocus on those values. ♪ ♪ oh oh oh ♪ little china girl right now, china, building hundreds of thousands of miles of new roads. over the next ten years, it plans to build dozens of new airports. over the next 20, it could build as many as 170 new mass transit systems. everywhere else they're thinking big. china's building faster trains and newer airports. today, china has the most wind capacity. we've fallen behind! on what is going to be the key to our future. you go to a beijing airport, it unbelievable. you go to some of ours, oit built back in the '50s. we don't have high-speed rail in

this country. why not? >> all right, 34 past the hour. much has been discussed -- >> a lot of good questions, by the way, from president. >> very good questions -- about china pulling away from the u.s. and infrastructure investments, but could china's building boom also be inflating a bubble that's prime to burst? joining us now, professor of economics at harvard university and co-author of the book "this time is different, eight centuries of financial folly" professor ken rogoff, very good to have you on the show. >> thank you. >> professor, it's great to have you here. i read a quote of yours in "the new york times" and sat up and said, i'm glad somebody is saying this. >> i don't know what. >> because i don't want to hear five years from now everybody rubbing their chins and saying, well, of course, we knew the china bubble was bound to burst. when, in fact, they are -- it could very well be a bubble. >> yeah, whenever you have an economy growing this fast with slow little data, it's not clear

what's going on. everything seems to be growing to the moon. things are going very well. but accidents happen, and china's collapse this time is a different story. we have better government. hardworking people, they save a lot, et cetera. nothing could ever happen. and they extrapolate 30 years ahead. and life just doesn't work that way. >> great cash reserves, but at the same time in the same "new york times" article where you were quoted, you look at the debt being accumulated by local governments, staggering. >> yeah. i mean, the overall debt burden in the chinese economy is really growing. the central government doesn't owe that much, maybe 20% or 25% of gdp which is nothing compared to most of the world. but the state and local governments owe more than that. and then there's a lot of borrowing on top of that. i mean, if you look at total debt in china, we're getting to 150% and more. so, certainly the idea that there's no debt is wrong. now, they're growing -- >> and by the way, there's no

transparency on these numbers as well. >> that's the understatement of the year. i mean, most governments have very little transparency on their debt. i mean, look at greece. you can even look at germany. it's not that easy to figure out what's going on, and china's worse. but in china there's no transparency about the consumer price index. they don't really know what gdp is. you know, they poll the provinces. they try to trust pem. even the chinese authorities don't completely know what's going on. we know it's booming, but, again, whenever you have the situations, a booming economy, lots of building, no transparency, stuff happens. it doesn't mean it's the end of the world. >> what you're saying it's easy to be china in some ways and have an infrastructure that's booming when you don't have the transparency and the rules and different things that perhaps might impede massive progress all at once. >> well, that's true. i mean, it isn't easy to be china. they've done a great job, no doubt about it. but infrastructure, they're really good at it.

the old soviet union was really good at it. i am old enough to remember when we thought they were overtaking us because they were good at infrastructure. there's, like, a frog somewhere you can't move here. in china, they just knock on your door, they tell you, you're moving. >> you're gone. by the way, your house, we bulldozed it. >> that's why they can build it fast. >> you're exactly right. we heard 50 years ago that the soviet union was passing us. we heard 25 years ago that japan was passing us. i remember talking to a close friend in 1997, saying i just came back from southeast asia. i'm telling you, you know, and -- and he said there are cranes everywhere. they're building so quickly. they're going to surpass us. i remember reading predictions in "the financial times" i believe it was in the late '90s that seven of the top ten economies in the world in the

next decade would be pacific rim. and they were, until they weren't. and those cranes were still standing rusting ten years later. >> i remember lenin grad had the nickname at one point the city of cranes because they were all sitting there as all the production had stopped, all the construction had stopped. >> that leads to an interesting question. so, what is the ripple effect this time? if and when down the road the pressure on prices which we're seeing going up there, the central bank, their version, of their fed has raised interest rates a significant number of times in a short period of time, what is the ripple effect for the rest of us? particularly here in the u.s. since they hold so many of our treasuries and they're so integrated into our economy now in ways that i don't think we fully understand, how do you see this playing out for us? >> you're right, michael, these are things we don't understand,

they're integrated in our economy, and they're driving commodity prices and a lot of things in global demand. if they have a slowdown, it's gradual, no big deal. but if there's a collapse in china, it would hit us very, very hard. it would be an incredible shock, because nobody's expecting it. those are the shocks that really, really hurt. >> give me some other examples. i'm sorry, peter -- >> go ahead. >> let's go to you first. >> give us other examples as far as joe was asking. >> no, i was wondering, you said that this time it's different. this time it's different. what are some other examples of where the world said, as with china, this time it's different? >> latin america in the 1960s, it was booming, they had technocrats, it was great. in the 1920s, world war i ended, it would never happen again, everything would be great. and we had the great depression, and carmen ryeinhart go back years and show it.

>> and you talked about the changes in europe, dominique strauss-khan out and that's a problem, why is that significant and being a problem with the imf going forward? >> christine legard is a terrific person, but the imf needs to give tough love and i think it's important to have detachment from europe and i think they are going too far in supporting whatever europe wants to do. all right, coming up next, you had a student at harvard, by the name of melissa francis. >> well, she claims. we're calling you out, melissa. is that true, melissa, or are you making it up. >> no, it's absolutely true. >> wonderful. >> he may not have given me the grade i wanted, but it was still a good grade. i'll have a chance for payback. >> i'll suffer that someday. >> thank you very much. the book is "this time it's

different eight centuries of financial folly" and coming up, "bills befo "business before the bell" with his student, melissa francis. we'll be right back. it moves effortlessly, breathes easily. it flows with clean water. it makes its skyline greener and its population healthier. all to become the kind of city people want to live and work in. somewhere in america, we've already answered some of the nation's toughest questions. and the over sixty thousand people of siemens are ready to do it again. siemens. answers.

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able to do anything, that's a fundamental fight about what kind of country we'll be and whether or not we take recovery from this economic disaster seriously. you have to build your way out of it. you have to be a stronger country when you come out the other side of this recession than when you went in. you have to or you'll be left behind. that's the fight we're having right now. ♪ i've got two tickets to paradise ♪ ♪ won't you pack your bags and we'll leave tonight ♪ "before the bell" with melissa francis, she's live at the new york stock exchange still grousing about her -- what did you get at harvard? what's the low grade at harvard? >> i've got to say before i went to harvard, i never got anything lower than an "a," and that changed very quickly upon arrival. >> and what did professor rogoff give? >> it was a "b" of some type, i will have to look at the official transcript, i'll dig it up after this. >> a "b" would be a good day for me. >> i would stay, you get a "b," yeah. >> there were a lot of people

that were willing to spend all day and night in the library and i wasn't one of them. i still did come away with something. i have an okay job, it all worked out, okay? >> you're doing good! >> you got a daytime job, you're doing all right. let's talk about the debt deal, all this talk is making investors on both sides of the atlantic very happy. >> well, that's right. we're playing "deal or no deal" on wall street today. we got a deal in greece. we're going to get the rest of the bailout package and the european union said they'll stand behind any of the other countries that might have similar problems. of course, greece is technically defaulting. they're calling it a selective default, a restricted default. it means no one needs to panic. that will be fine. european markets are celebrating. here in the u.s. we're tentatively looking for a deal on the debt ceiling but we got faked out earlier in the week when tuesday or wednesday when president obama came out the market rallied and a deal wasn't done. we're watching it closely. caterpillar out with earnings already which kind of roiled the markets and turned them more

negative, making them shy of estimates, so we're watching that as well. that's what we got done here. >> all right. >> if the deal comes through -- >> yes. >> -- let's say this weekend or early next week, do we expect a big rally on wall street? >> rejoicing. >> rejoice. >> there rejoicing, which is really ironic because all along traders said we expect there will be a deal in the last minute. we're not really worried, it's not that big of a deal, but you know wall street, we like to celebrate anything positive. if we see a deal, we'll almost certainly see a rally and quick profit taking we're so fickle. >> so, what do you grade her? what do you give a grade? >> come on, mika, hem mlp me ou here. >> it's an "a," all the way. >> cnbc's melissa francis, thank you very much. >> thank melissa. up next, the best of late night. [ male announcer ] this...is the network --

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we know who the clear front-runner is. $18 million raised, mitt romney is the king of the jungle. he is the superpredator of the race. he is the republicans -- let's see where governor tim pawlenty is at, he's got $4.5 million raised this quarter still, though, he struggles against the perception that he -- >> former minnesota governor tim pawlenty kicked off three weeks of iowa barnstorming with an rv tour and a warning that iowans should not waste their support on charismatic candidates who can't actually win. >> tim pawlenty taking a bold stand against charisma! it's got no place in politics. hey, look, this is not a popularity contest. oh, it is? oh.

islam is both a religion and a set of laws, sharia law. that's the difference between any one of our other traditional religions where it's just about religious purposes. >> yes, yes, yes. it's very different. it's very different. i read about the strangeness of their combination of religion and laws in my people's holy book, the torah, which translated into -- i don't think the predators are even going to bother with this one. i just saw this, house speaker john boehner invited new congressmen over for pizza last night. unfortunately the delivery guy left when they spent ten hours fighting over a plan to pay for it. folks know anything about the debt crisis and the debt ceiling limit? do you understand what that means? that they're going to raise it, they're not going to raise it. do you know, do you understand?

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1 million square miles of the u.s. are under a heat dome. but don't worry, we have plenty of shade under our $14 trillion debt ceiling, so it's pretty nice. welcome back to "morning joe." it's time to talk about what we learned today. >> we learned so much! >> i learned so much. >> oh, my gosh.

>> what did we learn? >> we start with peter. >> what about peter? >> that he is -- >> special. >> -- a consummate professional. >> he is. >> i learned everything from him about how to be professional on the air. >> your sports report really. didn't even do the sports report. >> exactly. >> what i learned there's about 10,000 tickets to the hall of fame game now available. it's canceled. >> that is unbelievable. so, the owners making an offer to the players. the players yawn. >> they decertified. they have to recertify, join the union again. >> what have you learned? >> i learned two things. the first is you actually have friends. this is good. >> i've got a few. >> and it's good to see that you got boehner and the president channeling gingrich and clinton. >> which mika it's unbelievable. you got any big plans this weekend? >> "book of mormon."